Phoenix Mills : Transcript of Analysts/Institutional Investor Meet/Con. Call


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Corp. Office: Shree Laxmi Woolen Mills Estate, 2nd Floor,

R.R. Hosiery, Off Dr. E. Moses Rd. Mahalaxmi, Mumbai – 400 011

Tel: (022) 3001 6600 Fax : (022) 3001 6601

CIN No. : L17100MH1905PLC000200

July 02, 2022


BSE Limited

National Stock Exchange of India Limited

Phiroze Jeejeebhoy Towers

Exchange Plaza,

Dalal Street, Fort,

Bandra-Kurla Complex, Bandra East,

Mumbai- 400 001

Mumbai- 400051

Security code: 503100


Dear Sir/Madam,

Sub: Transcript of Investor Interaction

This is further to our letter dated June 30, 2022, wherein we had informed the exchange about the conclusion of our Investor Interaction at India Real Estate Forum organized by Kotak Securities on said date, please find attached herewith the Transcript of the said interaction.

The enclosed Transcript is also available on the Company’s website and can be accessed at

You are requested to take the same on record.

Yours faithfully,

For The Phoenix Mills Limited

Digitally signed by GAJENDRA MEWARA DN: c=IN, o=PERSONAL, title=8111, pseudonym=c42d4d0db269bd9fbd3456ea9 ace42f82ff80f2bde400c4844b971c2fccf4d38, postalCode=400103, st=Maharashtra, serialNumber=49378de56da0d80fb5c142ce8 99a699091a435361972864adc8efef4f782311 f, cn=GAJENDRA MEWARA

Date: 2022.07.02 14:02:51 +05’30’

Gajendra Mewara

Company Secretary

Encl.: As enclosed

Regd. Office : The Phoenix Mills Ltd., 462 Senapati Bapat Marg, Lower Parel, Mumbai 400 013. Tel : (022) 2496 4307 / 8 / 9

Fax : (022) 2493 8388 E-mail : Ÿ

The Phoenix Mills Limited

Interaction at Kotak Real Estate Forum hosted by Kotak Securities

June 30th, 2022

Murtuza Arsiwalla: Hello everyone and welcome to the final day of our real estate forum. As most of you know, I am Murtuza Arsiwalla your host and moderator for this event. I’m backed by my colleague Pratik Barsagade. Before I introduce our opening speaker this afternoon a quick word on the format – delegates please ensure that your display name includes your first name, surname and your company name, else this system will shut your access. I will be happy to take your questions and invite you to post them in our chat box or raise your hand over the next 40 minutes. I will try and take as many as I can. The Phoenix Mills story is one that I know all of you are familiar with and are keen to know more about, so I am delighted to introduce to you Anuraag Srivastava, CFO of Phoenix Mills. Anuraag has over 25 years of experience in various sectors and geographies and at Phoenix Mills he is responsible for driving the company’s overall financial strategy, deployment of capital, unlocking shareholder value, deciding future fundraise strategies, mergers and acquisitions, and digital transformation. Anuraag, welcome to our forum today. I would offer you the floor to put out certain opening remarks on Phoenix Mills in particular and the retail landscape in general before we get on to further questions, over to you Anuraag.

Anuraag Srivastava: Thank you Murtuza. It’s a great pleasure to be here and interacting with the forum. I think retail is back with the bang and we are seeing phenomenal growth in all our formats i.e. our retail outlets as well as hotels, commercial offices, leasing space, etc. So clearly India has put Covid in the back burner and all of them are now trying to get back to the normal way of living and some amount of wealth which is accumulated over the past 24 months of staying at home or working from home is now available for spending or for getting back on track with the light. So we are quite hopeful that this will continue as a trend and we are in a good space to monetize that.

Murtuza Arsiwalla: Thank you Anuraag, I understand you’ve joined Phoenix Mills more recently, but if you could share the experiences of the organization at large coming out of the last two years of the pandemic. What have been the key learnings from these past two years and what gives you confidence that the retail business is here for the long haul.

Anuraag Srivastava: Yes, a good question. You rightly said that I have been on board for about seven months, but there was a continuous interaction with both Atul and Shishir and some members of the management team over the last almost six or seven months before joining and this was my main question that we are in a consumer facing business and the business has literally stopped right now; so what is Phoenix doing as well as, my own observations of coming on board. I

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think “trying 24 months” is putting it very lightly. I think we went through situations which nobody had envisaged. There were no precedents, there was no playbook to what to do in these sort of situations. There was a lot of noise on what to do, what not to do, the government coming up with regular updates, circulars, and as you know with some of the states where we have a large presence, the government itself was very slow in opening of the malls. But I think the company and the management team decided to do what we know how to do well, which is looking for heads down. We look at things which we control rather than the external factors, and then get on with our business. I think we evaluated the entire business model. We had a significant retail construction portfolio underway and substantial office expansion that was planned pre Covid. We were clear that this part of portfolio should continue and we will see to it that it goes undisturbed. So this was what was internal. Externally, we looked at opening trends in the other parts of the world specifically what was happening in China etc. and realized that this is not the end of humanity as we call it. Things may not even change that drastically; this is a temporary blip, and we strongly believe that, sure, some parts of consumption will disappear, some part will go online for the time being, but that’s a natural progression of business, and it happens over a passage of time in any case. The other thing is that as compared to some of the other developed nations, organized retail in India is very low penetrated even as we speak. This is a clear opportunity for companies like Phoenix Mills. This is the thing to go ahead with; organized retail and modern retail is going to catch up, and this opportunity was evident for us; and we decided to capitalize on the opportunity. In fact, we decided that we’ll double down our model of creating the malls. As you know, our malls; whichever mall which we look at, are the center of the town where a lot of activity takes place. We have seen it across all our developments, but quickly, sort of recapitulating the key characteristics of this model- we believe in creating large destination malls in city center location. Each of our malls has great connectivity to multiple public transports and that gives us an inherent advantage. The retailer mix in our malls -straddles convenience, luxury and bridge to luxury. On top of that, there is a huge space is allocated to entertainment and experiences etc. We look at places where the market is unpenetrated, where there is limited or no competition or alternatives to a mall coming up at that size and scale. We take pride in managing our assets well, which reduces operational headache for retailers. They just need to open their place of business and do business. A dense, relevant and rich catchment surrounded by premium luxury residential projects grade A offices; I think if we put all this together, this is another incentive for people to come and open places of business in our malls. As you know we strongly believe in multi-use, mixed use, development of a project site. So I think that densification further increases consumption, so these are few of the items which are part of our strategy and we said we are going to develop further on that. Just on the malls itself, I think we decided that we are going to push our boundaries and since we are creating city centers, we said, why not make them grander or larger. If we create a place like that, people will come to shop, people will come to open their businesses. We also look at as I said earlier, that our mall in the future will not only be a shopping haven or a shopping destination. It will have concerts, performance theaters, spectacular events, a variety of F&B offerings and even places like ice rinks. The focus would also be on architectural splendor or architectural marvel. I mean,

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as you and most of the audience knows, malls in India are not just shopping places as in West or in other parts of the world. They are an outing for the family over the weekend or generally a go to place for everybody. So we believe that an integrated offering of retail F&B and other such experiences would drive footfalls, and that’s what we drew as a strategy. Coming back to the business performance and you mentioned that are we confident that the retail is back etc. So our malls have bounced back strongly, as I said in my opening remarks. We have seen that April and May 22, they are at about 30% or there are about from April and May 2019, which was the pre Covid period. So there’s a strong comeback on the demand on April and May; June is seeing a strong growth trajectory and that trend should continue. Surprisingly we’ve also seen enhanced retailer interest in taking a space in our mall, while our malls were very large to start with, we found it increasingly difficult to accommodate everybody and hence the idea of making a grander or larger mall. While the FY22 Covid period was one of the toughest periods, during this last year itself we had gross retail leasing of 4 million square feet which is a fantastic achievement by our leasing team. About 1300 outlets were leased out. It is our constant endeavor to keep delighting our customers. I think the business is back and the customers are coming back to malls and we are committed to take this journey forward.

Murtuza Arsiwalla: And then at that a point that you kept mentioning in your discussion about making bigger, larger, grander malls, Phoenix Mills by far has amongst the larger malls in every city that you’re present at if I may take on average 1 million square feet, right, we have seen some malls in India which are built of the 2 million square feet mark, and in my recent interactions with some of your peers, some of them have shown an interest of building a mall for almost about 3 million square feet. Any take on what would more grand really be. I mean the way I was thinking of it, and maybe it’s my personal observation, a million square feet to cover in today’s time is also hard, 2 million square feet harder. I’m not sure whether we have the kind of retail interest or people for 3 million. Just sort of get your sense of what according to you is the right size of a mall or is it dependent on specific sort of micro markets in the West or in more developed markets you may have seen even larger sort of malls, but just getting a sense of how Phoenix Mills really thinks about the rightsizing of the mall asset.

Anuraag Srivastava: I think from our perspective and our experience, as I said, if you look at our malls at many points of time, we found it difficult to accommodate even some of the marquee retailers. I mean there were people who were doing business and they were doing it really well, and even on an increased rent, they wanted to stay on. So that’s one point of data for you. Second thing is I think when you talk about competition, I think it’s just one player who is talking about it to 2 million or 3 million square feet mall. Most of the malls in the country which you see are less than a million square feet. I think only seven or eight malls which are above 1 million square feet, I maybe sort of here or there by one or two. But as I said, we create a mall not just for shopping, we also create a mall where it’s an entertainment center, a good F&B place, a multiplex, there are concerts happening over there etc which drives footfalls, so I never said it’s a shopping destination, I just said it’s a destination center. I think that the right size mall in

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my view would be between about 1 million to 1.3 million square feet. And that should take care of most of the retailer interest and take care of no cannibalization among brands etc.

Murtuza Arsiwalla: In the past I have post this question as well. I have seen Phoenix Mills acquire certain under construction malls. Indore and Lucknow being the case in point where you took over assets which are half way built and took upon the onus of completing those malls and we’ve already seen what you’ve been able to do with the Lucknow property. Would you be open to the idea of acquiring operational malls or even a chain of operational malls and what for you are the key considerations before you were sort of proceeded such acquisitions.

Anuraag Srivastava: You’re right, the two malls which we acquired in Lucknow and Indore were under construction malls. So I’ll just for the sake of a bit of repetition, but I’ll just reiterate that we look at creating 1 million square feet plus malls which are city center destinations. We always strive to create value accretion of shareholders. So we look at projects in excess of a pretax XIRR of 20% plus. So that’s one of the big consideration that if we’re looking at a property, we’re looking at creating something which should accrue value to our investors. The other important factor, if you consider for a mall is location i.e. prime location in metro cities, big cities, etc. We take a lot of feedback from the retailers on which are the upcoming shopping or which are the upcoming consumption cities in their view where they would like to be present, so it’s a partnership it’s not just Phoenix going and creating a mall and then sort of scouting for tenants. So it is sort of a co-build plan of saying that ok, these five cities are of importance and let’s go over there. What kind of surrounding catchment is there? Is it a premium catchment? Is it a place where a lot of people come or are likely to come. We have learned over a time to only go to places which have existing infrastructure, not future infrastructure. We tend to stay away from those because it’s India and we don’t know when the future infrastructure is getting delivered. So we tend to stay where there is an already existing infrastructure and what is the existing and upcoming future potential and intensity of the competition in the market. I think if we look at the current malls which are available, there are very few retail assets which meet this criteria, which are existing running retail assets, and even if there are, the owners of those assets are not in a sale mode at the moment. So we scan and we continuously look at deals to acquire but I don’t think there’s any significant portfolio available, but we’ll be happy to evaluate the same if any good opportunity comes up by now.

Murtuza Arsiwalla: Thank you Anuraag. I see Palak Shah having raised the hand from Infina. Palak please go ahead with your question.

Palak Shah:Thank you for taking my question. So firstly, you mentioned that there’s been a recovery across the board or at least on the retail consumption side. So I just wanted to be wanted to ask whether this is a recovery specific to Phoenix, given that there’s a limited visits to the start of this year, limited visits to the mall or it is more broad based across market?

Anuraag Srivastava: So the question is, is it just pertaining to Phoenix malls as recovery or if there’s a general uptake in the economy is that

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The Phoenix Mills Limited published this content on 02 July 2022 and is solely responsible for the information contained therein. Distributed by Public, unedited and unaltered, on 02 July 2022 09:22:08 UTC.

Publicnow 2022

All news about THE Phoenix MILLS LIMITED

Sales 2022 14 417 M
183 M
183 M
Net income 2022 2 093 M
26,5 M
26,5 M
Net Debt 2022 29 393 M
372 M
372 M
P/E ratio 2022 100,0x
Yield 2022 0,24%
Capitalization 212 B
2 688 M
2 688 M
EV / Sales 2022 16,7x
EV / Sales 2023 10,2x
Nbr of Employees 88
Free-Float 51,9%


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Technical analysis trends THE Phoenix MILLS LIMITED

Short Term Mid-Term Long Term
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Income Statement Evolution



Mean consensus BUY
Number of Analysts 13
Last Close Price 1 187,90 INR
Average target price 1 279,77 INR
Spread / Average Target 7,73%